John Curran (2015)

An IPv6 quantity of anything is lethal... gimme the 4.b billion horde of huge ducks, and perhaps something sharp to wield!

It's a real problem - in the short term, we need to accommodate both the IPv4 and IPv6 tables in parallel, and things are going to get tight.
I'm not actually worried about the IPv6 routing table (even though each entry can be larger in size) because the number of issued IPv6 blocks is still likely to be quite small compared to the decades of IPv4 address issuance.

However, IPv4 is going to be a big problem in the interim, as parties start valuing unique public addresses and don't really care about the minimize size... i.e. if you can acquire a /28 and have a unique presence on the Internet, why pay more to get a /24? In the end, it's going to be up to the ISPs to decide what is the minimum size "customer Bring-Your-Own-Address (BYOA)" that they're willing to route....

We've actually been reclaiming unused IPv4 space for a while, with some very good results. We would have run out years sooner, if it were not for organizations such as BBN, the US DoD, Stanford, Interop, and others who returned unneeded address space as a result of these efforts. You can read more about that here - https://www.icann.org/news/blog/recovering-ipv4-address-space

Two important things to keep in mind - 1) we were issuing IPv4 space in 2010 and more than 10 /8's per year, so recovering another handful doesn't change IPv4's outlook in the least, 2) this is further shown by IPv4's 4.3 billion total address space compared with 7+ billion people on the planet... we literally can't provide for one always-on device for everyone here via IPv4 (let alone their home, work, cloud, etc. demands)

While black market transfers are possible, the reality is that we already have today an IP transfer market which is working well, and completely legitimate. Folks that wish to transfer addresses can do so, both within the ARIN region, and to/from other regions in accordance with policy. Given that, there's not a lot of reasons to try and work around the legitimate transfer process, unless you are trying to bypass the policies, and the risk one takes is that nearly anyone can sell repeatedly to multiple buyers if they're not going to update the registry... not a reasonable risk that most businesses will take.

> FIFY

In the morning, coffee. Lot's of coffee - I prefer fresh latte or expresso, but will drink nearly anything caffeinated at 5 AM.

In the middle of the day, more coffee.

At night, more coffee, and an occasionally gin and tonic or expresso martini (see a pattern here?)

If a party engaged in a request with ARIN and supported via fraudulent statements, place bring it to our attention (https://www.arin.net/resources/fraud/), as we do investigate and will correct any updates that were made as a result.

Note that acquiring a company for its IPv4 resources is not contrary to policy... ARIN will work with the combined entity to make sure that it puts the number resources to use or transfers to someone who can use them in a timely manner.

King - I do hope you are not an Internet Service Provider and just hearing about this now. If that's the case, my advice is to change professions quickly. ;-)

Otherwise, if you're just an typical organization, it's good to know that many of the folks accessing your website today are coming over mobile devices that actually connected to the Internet via a slightly different protocol (i.e. IPv6) You're website is likely connected only via IPv4. This should remedied as it will provide for more direct connections with better performance, and really is not much work. Talk to you IT department (or if you are the IT department, then go online to and then talk to your hosting company or ISP)

It's important to realize that it's the public Internet that's moving to IPv6; enterprises should make their public websites IPv6 reachable, but it's entirely up to each organization whether they deploy IPv6 on their internal networks. It's going to be a long-time until we see services and resources that are IPv6-only on the Internet, so it's required that enterprises deploy IPv6 to all their desktops today.
(Mind you, we've done exactly this at ARIN, and many forward-looking firms are doing the same.)

It's an interesting question... The fact is that most devices today don't make use of IP addresses, but that is rapidly changing. We see IP addresses being used in home applications and home automation, automobiles, and even things like power meters. I don't know how big a trend this will become, or what the total demand will be, but it's pretty clear that IPv4 isn't going to handle the job given it's limitations. The good news is that folks working on the areas of highest growth (such as mobile devices and sensors) are well aware of this fact, and basing their standards on IPv6.

We will be reviewing several options for new fee at the ARIN Member Meeting which will be taking place in Montreal in October... removing disincentives for IPv6 deployment has been acknowledged as a prime consideration and so you should be pleased with the results.

Okay, you use "involved" and "aloof" as characterizations, and I guess, I don't really see "aloof" as being applicable...
(of course, I'm in the middle of doing an AMA on reddit, so it's fairly hard to feel 'aloof' at this moment...)

ARIN is a very focused Regional Internet Registry, and as a result, we don't try to be an all encompassing focus point for everything Internet in our region. Other RIRs have different approaches, and are not only the registry for their region, but serve to be the primary operator forum for their region, and the place where all Internet policy dialogues take place, etc.

ARIN's focus is the result of the guidance from the community and the Board over the years... it has resulted in a smaller RIR, but hopefully one that is more approachable, at least as far I've heard from the community.

So, a major customer comes to an ISP which is completely out of addresses (or has some, but will provide them 4 for their business connection), and that customer says "route the /26 I have obtained or I'll get my 1Gb connection from your competition"

What happens next?

Yes!! :-)

Long-term (5+ years), we're not likely to need the same level of policy process support (in terms meetings and online discussion) as we do today, but we'll still need an accurate registry and publication/update services, etc. We'll still be doing outreach, since there's huge Internet and it will take a while before everyone understands the IPv4 -> IPv6 transition. Finally, to the extent that governments and civil society seek to engage with the technical community, we serve as a point of contact for discussing matters of Internet coordination and governance.

Parties get address space after providing a request with appropriate backup documentation... ergo, this is pretty routine stuff.

Justin! Great to hear from you, and you ask an excellent question.

I do think that it would be interesting to explore such a technology for issuing and administration of IPv6 address blocks, but it needs to be rolled out in parallel with an infrastructure for negotiating and settling the routing of IPv6 prefixes, since presently ISPs "automatically" tend to route address blocks issued by the RIRs (and have the ability to negotiate policy and thus indirectly control why and how many of these address blocks are issued); in a world where anyone's cable modem (or cell phone) can obtain IPv6 block, we may not know how to route all of these entries since results in an effectively "flat" routing table, without the benefit of ISP aggregation that is the default today.

Excellent question... We've one significant issue for law enforcement that comes out of the ISP switch to IPv6, that in fact may not be obvious at first glance. In the past, when parties sought their next IPv4 address block from ARIN, we asked them to show utilization of their prior IPv4 allocations. In generally, this effectively meant that ISPs needed to have entries in the registry (ie. "SWIPs") that reflected all of the assignments made, in order to show the appropriate level of usage of their existing blocks. One useful side-effect of this approach to address management is a Whois directory that has entries that reflect organizations using the address blocks, and even if these entries only got put in place when the ISP came for their next block (6 months or a year later), they at least got made eventually.

Under IPv6, we're not expecting ISPs to come back for an additionally block very frequently. In fact, in some cases, it might be the grandson of the ISPs founder who be coming back to ARIN, because of the rather IPv6 allocation sizes. Faced with updating many years of assignment records, or simply setting up a new entity and getting fresh block, one can imagine that there's not a lot of incentive to update the public registry records, and that's potentially a significant impact for law enforcement. It's unclear whether addressing this is something that can effectively be done by the RIR community or whether it ultimately is a public policy question that needs further discussion.

Well, do you happen to know anyone using DECNET, SNA, X.25, or IPX? I do, and yet most people would say these are all "legacy" networking protocols.

I expect to see IPv4 live a very long life, but entirely in closed and private environments (much like the folks still doing a little X.25 today)

There's no place like 127.0.0.1

So, my particular background is that I managed to get my hands on a Radio Shack TRS-80 in my early teens, and was addicted to computers ever since. I had already written several programs for pay before leaving high-school, went to UMass Amherst where I worked for the University computing center and that led to a career as a system programmer and eventually network programming.

My advice is very simple: never stop learning, read everything, and give each job 110%, no matter how routine or trivial it might seem.

One cannot make luck, but you can make opportunities happen by being prepared and always giving your all.

In particular, in this industry right now, the folks who are becoming IP6 experts are going to be in very demand for the next few decades, and I have little doubt that those who put the effort in to become expert will have little trouble finding opportunities. Hope this helps, and drop me an email if you want chat further!

Actually, there is certain secret wg that appears at conferences from time to time, and I've been known to slip in and find a scotch or two!

In IPv6, I'd have go with fe80::C0DE:54C0:FFEE

I've got nothing here... I'm afraid you'll have to deal with the longer addresses and trying to remember them. Perhaps carry a small note pad? ;-)

> In an ELi5 manner

For the average Internet user, there is no change.

Another excellent question... I'll note that ARIN is trade association which parties voluntarily participate in - you agree to follow the policies and you get your address space. We've worked hard to make it easy to get IPv6 blocks, but your question seems to go beyond that into what incentives might government (or others) being to bear on this transition?

Some countries have used tax incentives or regulation to incent or require deployment of IPv6, and while those are certainly a possibility, it's not clear whether it's ARIN's job to advocate for such... For example, we have worked with the US government regarding IPv6 awareness, and as a result, those who provide services to the USG as a vendor find themselves rolling out IPv6; similar. it's quite possible that encouraging more market demand for IPv6 in other communities (financial, education) is the best path to getting more ISPs see the need for supporting IPv6.

Agreed! In fact, we had an IPv6 fee waiver in place for many years for those who wished to get involved and start their deployment. At this point, ARIN needs to encourage IPv6 deployment but also needs to have a fee schedule which provides financial stability to the organization throughout and after the IPv4/IPv6 transition.

Yes, we all proposed this back in 2007/8, and the folks in the IETF observed that many IP code stacks would not deal with using the class-E addresses as general purpose space. Mind you, that was nearly a decade ago, and it could have probably been fixed by now, but the RIRs were told that it would be better to focus on IPv6.... so that's what we've been doing.

Given that there's now major push by mobile operators in North America to use IPv6 for mobile devices, you pretty much have to deal with IPv6 whether you like it or not, and even if we had the additional class-E space today, it wouldn't make such difference to what the what organization faces in terms of getting ready their public-facing systems for IPv6 access.

If you're connected to the Internet already, the IPv6 change probably won't affect you directly. When you move or change providers, be aware that your new Internet connection (cable, fiber, etc.) has a good chance of supporting IPv6, and as such, your laptop and similar devices might use IPv6 to talk to the Internet. For many people, this will (and is) going unnoticed... folks with mobile phones today often don't know that they're already using IPv6 (e.g. some 20% and growing of the queries to google are IPv6 today)

You mentioned video game servers, and that does cause me to raise one item for you to consider... if you are on a home connection and an active gamer, you will want to be aware of whether you are using IPv4 or IPv6, as there are circumstances where one might be faster than the other. Choose your connection accordingly and happy shooting!!

So, both the DoD (via the DISA organization) and the US government (via OMB/GAO) have already engaged in audits of address space, and as noted earlier, the DoD returned several IPv4 /8 address blocks several years ago, based on their anticipated needs.

I've run several nationwide ISPs, and each one has their interesting challenges in handling network growth. If an ISPs chooses to use 6to4 as part of their solution, so be it.

(My angst is with those ISPs who don't do anything to support IPv6 at all...)

As noted by the previous replies, there's quite a few IPv6 addresses, and even with generous policies, I don't expect us to be worried about IPv6 runout for centuries to come (and if we do somehow manage to have a problem at that point, I don't expect, even with the best healthcare, for it to be my issue...)

We actually don't need a more centralized trading system to get the transparency... if the community wants reporting of pricing with transfers, then it's a simple policy to require such... This has been discussed and folks have traditionally come down against it, as it is more useful to have updated registry records than create incentives for parties to instead "lease" or otherwise go with off-book transactions.

I do believe we're seeing some of these leasing arrangement happening today, as service providers seek to have more protection for their growth than the present 2 years that can be obtained under the transfer in this region. Whether that's a desirable outcome or not is a community call, not my particular role to take a stance on!

Everyone is correct so far, but it's at the top that this will change and then quickly move downstream... I know of no ISP that will refuse take smaller routes if a major ISP backbone insists on it in order to keep the session going...

No.

Please keep security distinct from the question of NAT and addressing. The fact is that home routers have firewalls which provide the same protection either way. If you want incoming connections, then you have them turned off by default and this same result as you have with NAT. The folks at CEA have standards for IPv6 home routers addressing this very issue. http://www.internetsociety.org/deploy360/blog/2014/01/ces-2014-cea-announces-ipv6-specification-for-consumer-electronics/

There's many IP address that don't show in the public routing table today, and indeed, some are not in use - some are in use entirely private applications. If you are an ISP, that means there is an option of continuing to grow you network via IPv4, if you arrange to obtain the use of these numbers.

Mind you, it's not exactly a prudent long-term strategy, but may make sense for some providers as part of their overall plan.

The most useful thing to keep in mind is that IP address blocks are like slices of pie; i.e. we allocate in units which are effectively angle of the slice, not a specific number of IP addresses. This means that the size of the slice matters, and with big enough slices, we can again run out...

Remember, there are the same number of IPv4 /24's as there are IPv6 /24's...!