Warren Spector (2015)

Thanks for the kind words about Deus Ex. It freaks me out that people still talk about it and even play it fifteen years after it came out.

My feelings about the availability of engines democratizes game development in a way I find super exciting. The fact that they're free is just the cherry on the icing on the cake (or whatever that expression is).

In fact, the Denius-Sams Gaming Academy participants are happily working in Unity on the game they're making - The Calm Before

I think there have been a bunch of great games since. Maybe not as many as I'd like - okay, DEFINITELY not as many as I'd like, but I wouldn't use the word "poverty."

I'll leave it to others to say if DX remains exceptional. I think I have a big enough ego and enough love for my old DX team to say we did something special 15 years ago. Today, who the heck knows? You tell me.

Hey, Tyler, get the fuck back to work! You have DSGA game to finish! (Just come to my office and ask me your question!)

Wow, that's a cool pic! It was a thing for a German magazine or website or something with a bunch of great people. I remember sitting there thinking "What the heck am I doing here with these guys!"

I think people expect me to be pissed about new Deus Ex games that I'm not making but it's really not like that at all. I'm just excited (thrilled might be a better word) that I was part of the creation of something that's bigger than myself, that has a life of its own.

What did I think of DX:HR? Well, for starters, I don't finish a lot of games and I finished DX:HR. That'll tell you something. When I DID finish it, I kinda sat back and thought, "Wow, I just had a Deus Ex experience." It sounded like DX and felt like DX. It was pretty cool.

The Eidos Montreal guys made some design decisions I wouldn't have made, but overall, I was really pleased.

Now, having said that, my one regret is that the movie deal I had back in 2000 never made it to the screen and now there's no chance it ever will, 'cause DX, the original, is kind of old news.

Forgot about the Japanese designers question: Does anyone not love, admire and respect Shigeru Miyamoto. He came and visited the Disney Interactive booth at E3 once and I stood within 6 inches of him and couldn't bring myself to say anything. I was in awe. A couple of years later, I presented Epic Mickey at the Nintendo press conference at E3 and, backstage Mr. Miyamoto touched my arm and I instantly became a better designer. No fooling.

Taking your questions one at a time:

I don't think you can EVER have enough player empowerment as long as it's in the context of an overarching story created by someone with some real storytelling talent. (I'm not a huge fan of purely sandbox games...).

I don't think anything "went wrong" with Invisible War or Epic Mickey 2. They were attempts to address specific concerns or express specific creative desires and were the best games they could be given limitations of time and budget. I'll always be proud of the creative and technical risks those teams took, how hard they worked and how committed they were to each other and to the games.

And thanks for the kind words.

If the three of us ever worked together the world would explode in a matter/anti-matter conflagration of epic proportions! (Actually, I can't speak for Richard, but I'd love to do a TOON game... or an Illuminati game... or an Autoduel game. That'd be awesome.

I'm not sure how badly I'm going to get sued by someone for talking about this, but here goes.

Junction Point had a project cancelled (we can talk about that, too, if you want). There was no money. Basically, Valve came in like a white knight and offered us some work on a Half Life episode set in a part of the Half Life universe that hadn't been explored deeply. In addition, just because my team couldn't just do anything the easy way, we decided to add a new tool to the Half Life universe - the magnet gun. We came up with some COOL stuff to do with the magnet gun. Valve decided to move in another direction but I still wish they'd do something with the magnet gun. It was fun.

Favorite drinking story? I never asked for this...

Okay, here's the drinking story. I was giving a lecture at the New School in NYC. After, I was hanging out with some of the attendees (which I always) do (it's fun hanging out with gamers...). A couple of them asked if I wanted to go to a bar and hangout there (which I never do...) but for some reason I said yes. Hours later, I was sitting there with a very drunk gamer who gave me a hard time about how DX was right wing propaganda. Before I could respond, another DX fan came up and said "Right wing propaganda? It was left wing crap all the way." Funny thing was that they were both right. It all depended on how you played. That was a drink-driven super-cool moment for me.

The magnet gun was entirely different than the gravity gun. The two would have been super complementary.

This is another one of those things - better ways to do conversations - that I'd do if I knew how. I think it's pathetic that we've made so little progress in the last thirty years. I mean, we're still doing branching trees but NOW WE'VE ADDED TIMERS! Woohoo!

I'm counting on some indie developer somewhere coming up with a way to do conversations that blows my mind and makes me feel inadequate.

I thought I already replied to this but my answer seems to have disappeared. Let me try again.

We talked about the UNATCO scenario but decided against it. That was one of the reasons we tried to open things up even more in Invisible War. As far as the White House goes, we actually built a test mission set there (built the White House from actual blueprints!) but, at the end of the day, it just didn't fit the story we ended up telling. It kind of brought things to a distracting halt.

The biggest thing we cut, probably, was the Russo-Mexican war and a large-scale attack on Austin, Texas. That would have been insanity to try to implement!

Someone remembers the freakin' Bullwinkle and Rocky Party Roleplaying Game? No way! I loved that game. Here's a secret (which I shouldn't share): Zeb Cook and I worked on that one. We were in NYC to see the old B&R cartoons (which weren't available for home viewing). After melting our brains by watching for 8 hours straight we went to a bar and just looked at each other and said, "We're screwed. There's no way to make a game about this!" Then we had a gin and tonic. And we started getting ideas. On about the third gin and tonic, we had some brainstorms - like hand puppets and spinners and we were off to the races. Only game (I know of) that was designed drunk. (Man, I'm never going to work again!)

Well, my favorite is that every game I've worked on has a basketball court in it, where you can actually shoot a basket. They're all hidden and I make sure my teams don't tell me where they are so I have the fun of finding them. The DSGA participants put one in The Calm Before and I haven't found it yet, damn it.

There's also a dance party somewhere in Deus Ex...

I just prefer games that are less puzzle oriented or "single-solution" oriented and games that offer deeper simulations. Simulations allow players to explore not just a space but a "possibility space." They can make their own fun... tell their own stories... solve problems the way they want and see the consequences of their choices. That's the thing that games can do that no other medium in human history has been able to do. It's kind of a moral obligation to do what makes you unique, isn't it?

Deus Ex tattoo? That's even more hardcore than I am!

There are so many challenges in learning creative leadership we have to take nine months to teach them! The biggest one? Probably how to maintain a consistent vision when you're working through a team of people that might be 800 people. (I'm never working on a game that has 800 people working on it again. Ever.)

I thought the Mankind Divided trailer was pretty violence-o-rific, which bugged me a little. I mean, the DX game was never about killing stuff. It was about picking your own playstyle, which MIGHT involve killing stuff. Given how well DX:HR did at the whole choice and consequence idea I'm hoping - and have confidence - the actual game will be a little more in the playstyle matters mold. In trailers, you just have to give people the most action-packed stuff you can, I assume. I'll definitely be playing Mankind Divided. Ask me then.

I want so much more than just HD graphics. I want a truly updated game - grapics, sound, UI, everything except the story and gameplay. That's what I want to play. I mean, it's hard for me to look at the old DX and not wish I'd made it in the 21st century.

I have inspected many wars but can't talk about it. Sworn to secrecy.

Would I develop an Underworld 3? I'd love to. Right now, I'm consulting on a game called Underworld Ascendent which is being worked on by some members of the original Underworld team. I'm hoping/confident that will scratch your UW3 itch.

It's margarita time!

That concept art was leaked and never intended for public consumption. I had the team do that because I needed to know where the line of acceptability was for Disney. What would they be comfortable with and what would they not be comfortable with. The way to find where a line is is to cross it. By a lot. Do something really out there and have them go, "No. Too far." Then do something a little less radical... and less radical until, frankly, you get where you want and they don't even realize you've gotten there. I think we pushed things further, darkness-wise, than anyone thought possible.

Will a game in that crazy, over-the-top, dark as the pit style ever see the light of day? Probably not from Disney!

Drama? What drama? ;-)

That's like ten questions in one, dude! Let's see what I can do with it.

The funny thing is that my games actually encourage people to try something out, reload and try for a "better" result. To be honest, I kinda hate that. I just want people to play the game the way they want to and find their own fun. But once a player buys a game, it's theirs and they can do whatever they want with it.

I NEVER compel a player to take any one path. That's SO not my thing. It's about players finding their own way, their own story through the game.

Great writing can make a huge difference to a game - just look at what Sheldon Pacotti did on Deus Ex. A lot... most... okay, maybe all of the "intelligence" people see in Deus Ex is down to him. Bow down before the mighty Sheldon!

Ah, I was thrown by your description of the story. That was just a small, small part of what we were trying to do. I totally recall the Junction Point game (and spent many nights worrying that someone would come along and tell me I couldn't call my next company that!). Though it evolved over time, the ultimate plan was to make an MMO unlike all the others that were out at the time. Frankly, there are a ton of ideas in the design doc we generated that STILL haven't been tried. If I were an MMO guy, I might give those ideas a whirl, but I'm pretty much not an MMO guy.

Sure. Just look around any game development studio or publisher. Just look at games and how many strong female characters there are. It's pathetic. I mean, let's just ignore half the population. We're idiots.

There's probably an entire design course in the answer to this question, but at the high level, I just look at games (which I will NOT name) that talk about open world stuff and just think they're open to the extent you can walk around and do different stuff, but if you REALLY stop to think about it, the range of options is fairly small BECAUSE they're trying to simulate entire worlds. You just can't do it - at least not well enough to suit me.

Instead, I try to make relatively small, concentrated environments that allow players to really explore - go into every building, talk to every person, pick every lock, kill (or don't kill) everything that moves... In a smaller environment you can do much more. Sometimes less is more.

I still want to make the One Block Roleplaying Game someday.

The Calm Before doesn't just look neat; it IS neat. Since you asked about commercial release, we'll release it. How's that for service? (It's going to be free to download from the DSGA website and The Calm Before website. Keep your eye there.)

The way the world is reflecting what we came up with freaks me out and pleases me beyond my capability to express.

Um... er... uh... I'm not sure I'm going to E3 this year. I mean I'm teaching these days and not actually working on a game or looking for a deal.

Now, if you want to fly me out to LA, I promise I'll be at your party! I'll pick up the hotel myself. How's that for a deal?

A deeply simulated, musical comedy.

I'm serious as a heart attack about this...

It's just so easy to simulate the pulling of a virtual trigger. And positioning one pixel over another pixel kind of simulates the act of aiming. Violence is easy (and, as you say, it's been a part of games for thousands of years - in fact, it's been a part of all entertainment and art forever).

I just think some games - lots of games - take it to far, where it's in bad taste. And too many games just pat you on the back for engaging in violent behavior. And there are just so many potentially interesting things we're NOT doing that we COULD be doing.

At some level I don't really care about violent games. Go make 'em. Go play 'em. Whatever. I just wish we'd focus a little more on other aspects of the human condition.

Haven't played it.

I'm a boss? Does that mean you're going to beat me to get to the next level?

My favorite game to work on was either Deus Ex or Disney Epic Mickey. DX because it came closer than anything I've ever worked on to what I imagined it would be when I closed my eyes at the beginning of the project and imagined what it should be. Epic Mickey because how many times in your life do you get to work with THE MOST ICONIC CHARACTER ON EARTH? And I think the team did Mickey proud. (And Oswald the Lucky Rabbit! We got to reintroduce Oswald!)

Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past (which is weird since it's a kind of game I'd probably never make but as a gamer I totally love it)

When Junction Point shut down I kinda took some time to think about what I wanted to do next. I had game ideas and thought about another start-up, but I'd already done that and wanted some new challenges. Academia has certainly offered me new challenges! And the opportunity to build a game dev program from scratch doesn't come along every day.

Is the experience living up to my expectations? Yep. Working with the students is great. (Dealing with University bureaucracy not so much...). I've been surprised how attached you get to students. And I like talking, so lecturing has been fun - I've given lots of talks at conferences and universities, but lecturing on a really regular basis is a ton more work. I like keeping busy. Is the DSGA a success? I think we've done well given that I warned the students that this first year was DSGA Beta 1.0 and they'd help us make it even better in future years. We've learned a lot, that's for sure.

I was lucky enough to have several mentors in the game business who taught me a TON.

Steve Jackson gave me an "undergraduate" education in game design.

Richard Garriott and Paul Neurath were the chairs of my "masters" degree committee.

Rich Hilleman taught me how to be a leader (assuming anyone thinks of me as a leader!)

I can't tell you how important it is to find mentors and learn everything you can from them.

None whatsoever. I've never actually mentioned this before, but I even volunteered to quit or be fired if it would keep the studio open. Disney just wanted to move in a different direction. Probably the right decision for them, frankly. No regrets. I had a great time working for Disney.

Well, let me be clear - I never said (and never would say) the DX:HR team made "wrong" decisions. Just different ones.

I mean, I'm not a fan of modular cover systems. Don't see the point. Clearly the DX:HR team disagreed.

I'm a big believer in giving players at least one "free" weapon, one that doesn't require energy to use. There's a reason why every game seems to have a crowbar. In DX:HR every weapon required energy. What happens when you run out?

And I thought the AI was too unforgiving. Once you failed a stealth attempt, the AI got really aggressive and took a long time to time out and forget about you. I felt like a failed stealth attempt turned the game into a shooter, which kind of undercut my playstyle.

But again, THESE WEREN'T WRONG DECISIONS. Just different.

I'm learning that my experience differs from other people's so don't take this as gospel, but I've had the most success finding programmers who are also writers. I've found that most writer-writers aren't well-versed in INTERACTIVE storytelling, which has technical requirements unlike other media.

You talking the cartoon or the possibility of comics? I'm totally jazzed about both. I can't wait to see new cartoons (hoping they adapt some Carl Barks stories like they did in the original series).

Does Epic Mickey have a future? You'd have to ask Disney about that. Honestly, I'd be a little surprised if there were any more games in the series but I guess you never know.

How do you get into game development? There are a ton of ways. I think the key is finding your passion - programming, art, design and become really expert in that. The competition for jobs is fierce. Make games on your own. Make lots of games. Prove to potential employers what you can do. Come to the DSGA... ;-)

Could Epic Mickey have worked better as a film? Better, hard to say but probably not. Could it have worked as a film? You bet. I actually put together a trailer and a budget and had a team lined up to make the Epic Mickey film but Disney didn't bite. I REALLY wanted to make that movie...

I think micro transactions are the spawn of the devil.

My favorite part of Thief: Deadly Shadows was the Shalebridge Cradle level designed by Jordan Thomas. It scared the piss out of me. I loved it.

Working with the DSGA students I'm AMAZED at how different the world is now from the world I started in. I think it's much harder to break in now than it was (gulp!) thirty+ years ago. As far as the actual changes go, it's obvious that the packaged retail business is a lot smaller piece of the pie than it used to be. Free-to-play... Games as service... Digital distribution... The rise of indie development. It's a different world, for sure.

Having said that, there are a lot of lessons still to be learned from folks who grew up in the old mainstream game development world. At some level, development is development, you know? And AAA game development is still a BIG part of gaming...

How did the team design such intricate levels? Lots of hard work! Lots of creativity. Total commitment to the vision. There was a level of commitment to the vision that rarely happens on teams. I saw it on Ultima Underworld and System Shock and Deus Ex. When it happens it's really special. And once you've experienced it once you spend the rest of your days trying to experience it again, let me tell you.

I think there's a still a subset of older folks we should ignore who still think of games as kid-stuff and a waste of time. But today pretty much everyone's a gamer. If you want to find the weirdo in the world, look for the non-gamer. Time will solve all perception problems. Just wait it out.

I think crowdsourcing is great for some people but not for me. I mean, never say never, but I can't imagine having to satisfy 10,000 masters. I'd rather serve one (a publisher or other funding source).

Who do I have to kill to write more DuckTales comics? ;-)

I can't even tell you how much fun I had writing the four-issue story arc called Rightful Owners. I want to do more! Give me a call Disney.

My plans for the foreseeable future are pretty much limited to the Denius-Sams Gaming Academy. I thought I'd work on some small side projects but this teaching thing is more time-consuming than I expected.

The games that inspired me were the old Atari game Star Raiders - the first first-person 3D game. I really felt like I was there, in the cockpit of a space fighter. And Ultima IV showed me that games could be about more than killing monsters and grabbing treasure. And, of course, D&D. We'd be nowhere without D&D. I think every game developer should face Lake Geneva, WI every day and acknowledge the god-like influence of Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

The way I started my career was so unusual I don't think anyone should consider it a viable option: I was an amateur tabletop gamer, got a call from a friend who worked at Steve Jackson Games who got me an interview for an Assistant Editor/Game Developer position and I was off to the races.

Where should you start? Make yourself an expert in one of the disciplines associated with game development.

I don't actually know what certification is (other than the DSGA certification we offer - but that's for people who are already experienced game developers as professionals or students...).

I was an Executive Producer. I had multiple teams and operated as a profit center with a budget for the group, not just an individual game.

I'm really not a legend - I'm a real boy!

What game comes closest? Probably Dishonored (no surprise - look at the team and you see a lot of DX-ers in the credits).

There's a Chinese restaurant across the street from the MIT campus that I love but, damn it, I can't remember the name. They made something called Swan La Chow Chow (which I'm probably misspelling horribly). I also liked Redbones barbecue in Somerville.

Weird question...

Check out the ragdolling on dead characters in Thief: Deadly Shadows.

Or check out Savage Empire where a bug allowed you to take one step in the game world and go directly to the endgame.

Or the bug in Ultima VI where, if you crossed a region boundary on a boat, the boat split in half and Lord British turned up somewhere in the gameworld as a decorative sword.

Actually, the missing World Trade Center was a result of an artist leaving them out. It was a mistake. Plan and simple. Of course, after 9/11, people read more into it than they should have.

I've been given so many wonderful things over the years it's hard to single anything out. But some of my favorite things are a series of caricatures of me in costumes inspired by games I've worked on - one of my artists surprised me with those.

My Serpent Isle team gave me a poster they all signed and given how hard I worked those guys, I expected them to gift me with a little bottle of arsenic.

And an Epic Mickey fan made some from-scratch plush toys of Epic Mickey characters - that was mind-blowingly nice.

My favorite game of the last five years? Probably Dishonored.

My favorite video game story? Probably The Walking Dead. Maybe Heavy Rain. But those work because they're so minimally interactive - terrific, but limited. It's relatively easy to tell a story when your script completely delimits what players can/can't do and where they can/can't go.

Best wishes and an AMA. That good enough?

All of game development is hard. For me the hardest part is the Production phase in the middle. Concept and Pre-Production are where you determine what you're going to build (plus or minus great ideas that come up throughout) and post-production is where you make a game beautiful and fun. But that middle phase bores the heck out of me. So I surround myself with people who live for production and, as much as I can, get out of their way.

Green. Though given that my wife has purple hair, I'm pretty partial to that, too.

Not for me, but I think it's amazing to see it coming. I'm actually amazed and a little weirded out how much of what we did in DX is coming true now. I'm starting to believe that the world of 2025 will be a lot like the one we created. I'm not saying I'm happy about that, but it seems to be happening.

I can't really look at game pitches. If someone's working on something similar to what I'm thinking about or working on I can get in big trouble. Legal trouble. Don't send me game pitches!